Chris Lyman is the Founder and Chairman of the Board at Fonality. Fonality creates innovative and affordable phone systems for small and medium businesses. Our products include PBXtra, trixbox Pro, and trixbox CE.
The rantings of a serial entrepreneur as he wins, loses, and doesn't pull any punches in describing both...
I realize that the title of this article:
...but bear with. What I am about to say has been learned, on the job, in a 15 year career of hiring...and firing...the better part of 1,000 people. Ugh, that made me feel old. <!-- If what I write makes me look like the grim reaper of CEOs.-->
What I have learned is, despite all the cute tricks of the interviewing process (which I will blog about later and which only slightly improve your odds) your chances of hiring a great employee in a couple of interviews are about the same as your chances of getting a great spouse from a couple of dates. In other words, unless you're into the dowry thing, forget about it. Now, I realize that larger companies have longer interview cycles and a host of vetting mechanisms to winnow wheat from chaff. But in startups, where you hire fast and loose, you just can't get good results enough of the time.
Yes, long ago I accepted that hiring a new employee possessed a high variable of risk. I've had interview bombs turn out to be rock-stars, and interview stars never show up mentally for work.. My years of experience have taught me, as it relates to the hiring process, that you can’t presuppose anything. First judgments can be way off, and, while you shouldn't hire the guy that walks in one hour late, and didn’t notice a Cheerio stuck on his lip, anything else is fair game. It takes time to glean an employee's pithy attributes: work ethic, intelligence, attention to detail, enthusiasm, even personal hygiene. And lord do I have some stories on the hygiene front.
Thus, what I have come to is that the hiring process is not nearly as important as the firing process. By this I mean: your skill as a manager is not based on your ability to get good people into your group, but on getting bad people out. The sooner you cull weaker players, the sooner you can replace them with stronger players (for relatively the same salary) and improve the human composite of your firm.
Seems obvious, don't it?
Boy oh boy, it ain't. Managers just *hate* to fire people. They will endure a bad employee for months, even years, to avoid the pain of firing them and the headache of re-hiring the position. It amazes me to watch the capacity of the human spirit for suffering the lack of spirit in the ones that work for them.
Why managers hang on to sub-par players:
What managers don't realize about the firing process:
I leave you with this thought: in 15 years of firing, while I have *long* pre-labored over the pain of having to fire, I have *never not even once* come to work the day after a firing and regretted it. 99% of the time my feeling is: what the frick too me so long.
So, what's taking you so long?
--
Chris Lyman
Fonality CEO & Janitor
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Stockholm Syndrome
Are you referring to the employer having this syndrome or causing this [smirk]? I have never heard of this until now and _boy_ does it sound like a piece of my life; just in an employee sense. I wonder if more and more people have this because of today's economy or if it's just them being able to 'deal' with it or 'letting it roll off their shoulders'. Hmph.
Nice post, I enjoyed it. Learned something new, which makes any Monday that much more exciting.
Good question
When using that term, I was referring to the employer having it. But, now that you raised the question, I can see how it works for both sides. It is easy to get locked into a relationship of misery and feel like its your only way, because it is all that you know.
Tx for dropping by Rich.
../chris
100% Agree!
Used to head multiple companies employing more than 2,000+ employees overseas (Asia) 1977-2000, and always have the same thought for my HR, "the hiring process is not nearly as important as the firing process".
Thanks goodness, I have very little chance of working directly with the small frys in companies as there are heads and managers who does that hiring and firing thing. But boy oh boy, when it comes to me firing my top officers! That was always a bit tough for me. --- A'int it so true in Chris' words "to avoid the pain of firing them"
Here is a different view to
Here is a different view to managing employees...
I once worked for a GREAT company who very, very rarely felt the need to fire anyone. They had a completely different approach which was to take underperforming or unhappy employees, determine why that was the case, and rearrange duties so that made everyone happier and more productive. (There was always plenty of work to share.) Sound like a lot of work on the management side of things? Of course it took effort, but in the long run it made for a GREAT work environment, very productive and dedicated employees, and therefore a thriving, profitable business. Isn't managing people part of what managers are suppose to do?
Spending 8 hours of time over a few weeks in determining what motivates an employee is much more productive then firing and rehiring. Productive not only in a cost efficient sense, but also in an overall employee morale sense, which is self-perpetuating.
What happened to the company? Well, they did SO well that a much larger, capital rich company come along, saw how profitable the company was, how great people worked together and bought it up. The new company then promptly "integrated" everyone and all the processes into thier struggling management style. Nearly all of the 80 employees were unemployed within a year, many who had been top notch players for 15 years with the original company.
Of course, there is the occassional employee who will never be happy or productive...
Interesting
Hmm....I think this is a very interesting approach. However, I wonder if you may be confusing the means with the end. In other words, your ultimate corporate success may *not* have been due to your unique human governance policies. It might have been simply that you had a good product at a good price point and your managerial style may have been orthogonal to the positive outcome.
That being said, I inherently *do* believe in giving people a chance. But, I wonder if your approach may be better for companies that have a slower growth model? Startups, which must grow quickly or die, really need A players to survive. And, rarely do they have the time to coax "C" players into "A" shape.
Don't get me wrong. I am certainly *not* advocating to fire everyone that's not perfect. Managers must play an integral role in shaping their team; moving valuable employees to more successful roles is certainly a good way to accomplish this. But managers are *not* guidance counselors. When folks don't come to work consistently, fudge things, don't treat customers like gold, don't respond to input, etc., sometimes you just have to move on...and quickly.
The goal of a manager is make good people better and not to make bad people good. Bad apples *do* ruin the bunch and the best method for such is culling, not coaching.
../chris
Cost Of Rehiring and Innovation
i've heard it said that the "cost of rehiring" can be be quite high for some companies. is it possible that the cost of rehiring is different, for companies of different kinds, or sizes? and that, in some cases, the cost of rehiring is higher than the cost of helping an employee find their most productive niche?
and, is there a difference between a company with highly-defined roles and tasks, where an employee's performance is a simple metric, vs. a company where employees (or some of them) excel through breaking the mold and innovating?
Yup Yup Yup ahh ahh ahh
Yah, So my last job was for a very large retailer that just went under. I will tell you that if the stock holders had read this blog the board and CEO would have been out and the company would still be around. It is so rare that people recognize the fact that people get it or they don't. I have a saying for this "Adapt or die off" it is how nature does it and companies should try it. Evolution has only been around for a few hundred million years why is it so new to businesses.
Who Fires Poor Management?
Realistically, is Board vs. poor management the equivalent of Management vs. poor team players?
And what about giving the team the chance to fire poor managers? I undermined my job when I faced off with a totally incompetent supervisor, but the equally incompetent ownership allowed her to continue to undermine the quality of the organization.
Excellent points you make.
Isn't it funny, our tendency to focus on the wrong things? I have worked for a startup, a couple of fortune 500 companies, as well as a company that managed to go from the garage to being bought out by an international giant and the subject of what makes a good hiring process always bothered me for several of the reasons mentioned.
It seems like it doesn't matter how much effort we spend screening and interviewing, you need to actually live with someone for at least a couple of months in order to know what you can expect from them.
On the other side of things, I was not very pleased when a coworker was fired and our manager told me that I was the one he worried about when he hired us. I think that we were both equally capable, yet our performance turned out to be far different.
Going Around One of My Managers
Hey Chris. Great post. I am the CEO of a high-tech company and couldn't agree more. Here's a related issue I'm dealing with and would love your thoughts: my VP sales has a dud on his team. The Dud hit his quota this year only because my VP Sales - who is superb - had filled the pipeline before we hired The Dud. Problem is, the Dud is an incompetent. I know it, my other execs know it, and I hate having the Dud on my team. I've spoken to my VP Sales, and he is very slow to pull the trigger - equivocating, etc. This has happened before with my VP Sales when he had another Dud on his team. It took him way too long to fire him. My VP Sales believes that he owns the number, and therefore he doesn't care what other people think. I don't like it. But I also don't run my company making decisions for my execs. So I don't want to tell him "fire the dud." I want him to make the call. Thoughts???
Your sales exec may be a dud
Tough situation -- I've actually been in a similar one and feel for you:
Here is the formula:
YOUR_SCORE = THE_OUTPUT_OF_YOUR_TEAM + YOUR_INDIVIDUAL_CONTRIBUTION
This means that for every dud on your team, *you* (in this case your sales VP) have to work that much harder to be considered an A-player yourself. Any good exec will quickly realize that the only way they can avoid working 80 hours a week is hire their own cadre of A-players. Sadly, this means they need to be equally diligent about firing their weaker ones. Payroll is a sum zero game.
So, this VP may be a great salesman, but he/she certainly cannot be a great sales VP if they cannot fire their duds. I would immediately start the arduous process of backfilling the VP! And if *you* don't do this, then maybe *you* are stricken with the same problem as your VP -- fear of firing duds.
Sounds harsh? Think about it:
You are upset because your Sales VP, whilst making the number, is not firing the dud. But, if I was on your board, I might be upset that you, despite making your number, are not firing your sales VP!
../chris
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